Is TT2 plus an M Scaler as good as DAVE?
Short answer
Not for transparency, by his account. In 2018 Watts said Dave on its own is more transparent than TT2 with an M Scaler, while timbre variation, tempo and flow, and instrument separation were better with M scaler/TT2, and some prefer each Head-Fi, Oct 2018. In an interview published in January 2020 (recording date not stated) he said that on a fixed budget he would pick TT2 plus M Scaler Passion for Sound 24:16. With an M Scaler on both, he said Dave wins "hands down in every regard" Head-Fi, Mar 2019.
Practical answer. Watts has not said that TT2 plus an M Scaler matches Dave. He has said Dave is ahead on transparency Head-Fi, Oct 2018Head-Fi, Mar 2019, and also that the TT2 and M Scaler pairing wins on some things and suits some listeners better Head-Fi, Oct 2018. Which comparison you mean, Dave on its own or Dave with its own M Scaler, decides which statement applies.
1. TT2 plus M Scaler against Dave on its own. In October 2018 he wrote: "Dave is more transparent; but timbre variation,tempo and flow, and instrument separation is better with the Hugo M scaler/TT2. Some prefer Dave, some M scaler/TT2" Head-Fi, Oct 2018. In an interview published in January 2020 (recording date not stated; the series began publishing in December 2019), comparing a naked Dave with a TT2 and M Scaler at a similar price, he said that if that was all you could ever afford, "my preference would be to go for a TT2 M Scaler," because musicality and enjoying the emotions matter most and "you get that from the M Scaler." He added that "there'd be plenty of people that will prefer the sound of Dave because Dave is so extraordinarily transparent" Passion for Sound 24:16. Continuing, the transcript has him saying "Even an M scale TT2, it's much more transparent," and that the choice between transparency and musicality is "really down to you" Passion for Sound 24:58. The start of this passage is garbled, so the exact setup he was comparing is unclear.
2. TT2 plus M Scaler against Dave plus M Scaler. In March 2019 he said an earlier remark had been "in the context of M scaler and TT2 against a lonely Dave on it's own," and that "M scaled Dave beats M scaled TT2 hands down in every regard - and it was a surprise to me that the difference was so large" Head-Fi, Mar 2019. The next day he said he had been misread: he was not shocked at TT2's performance, he was using an M scaler/TT2 at the time and it "sounds extremely musical and transparent," and Dave is "twice the price of TT2, so it damn well should be substantially better" Head-Fi, Mar 2019. In August 2022, describing TT2's development, he said "the final listening tests revealed that Dave was a lot more transparent than TT2," a difference "much bigger than I expected" Head-Fi, Aug 2022; that post does not say whether the units were M scaled. In March 2023 he referred to "Dave having much more resolution compared to TT2" Head-Fi, Mar 2023, and 17 days later that "Hugo TT2 has higher distortion than Dave" Head-Fi, Mar 2023.
Why he says Dave is ahead. In May 2018 he said TT2's noise shaper "is approaching Dave's noise shapers' performance," but "there is more to depth and transparency than just the noise shapers" Head-Fi, May 2018. In 2019 he said the improvement "does not come from the noise shaping, but the myriad of other factors that goes into a DAC design" Head-Fi, Mar 2019. In October 2018 he called Dave's 20 pulse array elements against TT2's 10 "a contributor" Head-Fi, Oct 2018. In May 2018, on raw transparency, detail resolution and depth perception, he said "Dave is still easily the king" Head-Fi, May 2018.
How he rates TT2's value. In March 2019 he said he was "perfectly happy with the SQ difference of TT2 against Dave - I think I have hit the sweet spot of performance against cost" Head-Fi, Mar 2019.
Different jobs. TT2 has a power output stage: he gave 18W RMS balanced and 7W RMS single ended Head-Fi, May 2018, and said Dave's balanced (negative) output, an op-amp stage, was intended "to drive power amp inputs only," while TT2 is "for passive loudspeaker loads, or crazy headphones, or driving power-amps" Head-Fi, May 2018; in 2021 he added that Dave's negative output "is not high current, so it will not drive headphones" Head-Fi, Mar 2021. In February 2022 he said that if 7W is enough, "TT2 will give much more transparency than Dave plus a power amp - which is why I use TT2" Head-Fi, Feb 2022, and in October 2024 that TT2 drives his B&W 803 D3 directly, which "Dave can't do" Head-Fi, Oct 2024. For an owner's LCD-4 headphones in August 2018, he said Dave "will certainly supply the absolute best transparency" Head-Fi, Aug 2018.
What the M Scaler does. In July 2018, advising an Aeon headphone owner choosing between the two, he said "a TT2 is a big upgrade from Hugo 2 - but the M scaler is not an upgrade - it's transformational" Head-Fi, Jul 2018. Dave benefits too: in July 2022 he said he was surprised "how musically involving old recordings can be, when using M scaler/Dave" Head-Fi, Jul 2022. He gave no size for the M Scaler's gain on Dave compared with TT2.
His advice. "Your best bet is to have a TT2/Dave demo at your dealer" Head-Fi, Aug 2018.
What he has not said. He has not said TT2 plus M Scaler equals Dave, and he has put no number on the gap beyond calling it "much bigger than I expected" Head-Fi, Aug 2022. This archive has no measurements comparing the two chains.
Quotes
“Dave is more transparent; but timbre variation,tempo and flow, and instrument separation is better with the Hugo M scaler/TT2.”2018-10-27 Head-Fi, Oct 2018
“M scaled Dave beats M scaled TT2 hands down in every regard”2019-03-27 Head-Fi, Mar 2019
“And my preference would be to go for a TT2 M Scaler.”2020-01 Passion for Sound 24:16
“the final listening tests revealed that Dave was a lot more transparent than TT2”2022-08-31 Head-Fi, Aug 2022
Dated positions
| When | Products | Position |
|---|---|---|
| 2018-05 | Hugo TT2, DAVE | Dave is still easily the king for raw transparency, detail resolution and depth perception; TT2's noise shaper approaches Dave's but Dave is still considerably more transparent. Head-Fi, May 2018Head-Fi, May 2018 |
| 2018-10 | Hugo TT2, Hugo M Scaler, DAVE | Dave on its own is more transparent, while timbre variation, tempo and flow, and instrument separation are better with M scaler/TT2; some prefer each. Head-Fi, Oct 2018 |
| 2019-03 | Hugo TT2, Hugo M Scaler, DAVE | M scaled Dave beats M scaled TT2 hands down in every regard, by more than he expected; he is happy with TT2 as the sweet spot of performance against cost, and Dave is twice the price. Head-Fi, Mar 2019Head-Fi, Mar 2019Head-Fi, Mar 2019 |
| 2020-01 (published; recording date not stated) | Hugo TT2, Hugo M Scaler, DAVE | On a fixed budget he would choose TT2 plus M Scaler over a naked Dave for musicality, while plenty will prefer Dave for its transparency; it is down to the listener. Passion for Sound 24:16Passion for Sound 24:58 |
| 2022-02 to 2024-10 | Hugo TT2, DAVE | Dave was a lot more transparent than TT2 in TT2's final listening tests and has much more resolution, and in March 2023 he said TT2 has higher distortion; TT2 can give more transparency than Dave plus a power amp if its 7W suffices, and drives speakers directly where Dave can't. Head-Fi, Feb 2022Head-Fi, Aug 2022Head-Fi, Mar 2023Head-Fi, Mar 2023Head-Fi, Oct 2024 |
Caveats and open points
- The 2020 interview passages have a garbled opening, so the exact comparison he was answering is unclear.
- The 2018-10 and 2019-03 statements describe different comparisons: in 2019 he said an earlier remark was about M scaler and TT2 against a lonely Dave on its own, then compared both M scaled. They are reported separately, not as a change of view.
- No measurements or numeric size of the gap are given.
- The 2022-08 post (Head-Fi, Aug 2022) and the 2023-03 posts (Head-Fi, Mar 2023, Head-Fi, Mar 2023) do not say whether the units were M scaled.
Topics: Product comparisons and upgrade paths, Pairing a scaler with a DAC